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Meeting Notes 2013 04 23
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=== Ari: about Mik === * Ari: It's been a rough week on -discuss. Would like to call attention to Mik being very abusive to people on the list. Has been asked to stop repeatedly. I and others are uncomfortable with him being here. Not necessarily saying he should be banned, but it would be great if he could chill out and also spend less time here. * Kevin: Can someone fill in those of us who don't read discuss? * Dan: Need to make sure there is balance. I started a rumor the Rev pulled a knife on me. Want to make sure everyone knows that was a troll. I want to apologize for that. If the Rev chills out with pissing on people's parades I'm ok with him being here. There were things behind the scenes that caused an extra-aggravated loony-tunes exchange. "obscene but not heard". I have nothing to do with the mailing list, I have nothing there. * Ari: I didn't know that was a troll, that was a serious allegation, very bothersome to read it. But I'm talking about as much about the fallout as the exchange itself. The tone was adversarial and hypercritcal. I don't want that to be the tone of the space, that some people are so combative that they need to be blocked to read the list. Whatever contributes to the atmosphere of combativeness needs to stop. * Martin: My intepretation is that Dan has been very boistrous and disruptive, yelling ** Dan: it's all true * Martin: trolling, instigating people... the situation wouldn't have arisen if you hadn't made it. ** Dan: I get the message. I'm sorry. * Carlos: This should be a different disucssion item. Dan, you're really disruptive. The way you introduce yourself is very contradictory. To Mik and Tony, you should take a break from the space, because you're just using the place as a cafe. Sure, you might be social hackers, but you isolate yourselves. New people come to the space or the list and find Dan, Rev Mik, Tony, which reflects the opposite of what we should be represented as. * Tony: I don't know your name, or how you're judging my projects, if you want to know what I'm working on I'd be happy to show you. I'd like to apologize for instigating these discussions on the mailing list, my motivation was that I wanted to work on my projects in the space. The altercation was preventing me from working. I hardly do anything except work on my projects. I've unsubscribed from the discuss list. I'm taking a break from NB and SF for a while in about 4 days. * Darius: As a new person, this discussion is very personal. I've had positive experiences with Dan, he gives a good welcome. * Carlos: The list should be an exchange of messages, not a chat room * Mik: I did not initate any threads. I was accused without any evidence or real testimony of comitting a violent crime, one of the worst things I could possibly do, in my belief. Apparently defending myself is wrong. In one email I was accused of many things, none of which were true, and even defending myself from two of the accusations gets me labeled as trolling the list. My behavior on the list is definitely not the lowest point its been in the last four months. What actually happened tuesday night is that I walked up to Dan and asked him a simple question: How is your being disruptive and loud being excellent to anybody in the space? What I got in return was 40 minutes of loud belligerance while Tony sat 4ft away snickering. I was supposed to back down because he was belligerant, but I don't see backing down as being excellent. Tony knew these accusations were untrue. His behavior following this supposed incident proves he knew. Supposedly with the knife-weilding maniac here, less than an hour later he was taking a nap. That tells me he knew the accusations were false. Carlos, you're here, what 2 or 6 hours a week? You don't know what I do here. I'm practically the information booth. I do dishes, I fixed the door on Turing, I'm trying to contribute to the space. * Kevin: One request and two suggests: Request: tone down personal attacks and bickering, focus on what will benefit NB and move forward. Sorry, saying bickering was a personal attack. Suggestions: Mik, when this happened with Dan and Tony, was there noone else here? What I would prefer to see happen is to address the issue in person, but what I'm hearing is you didn't have capacity. Was there noone there to support you? * Mik: I confronted Dan in person, I didn't take it to the list, nor did Dan. He heard me, but he didn't tone it down at all. * Michael: I was also there. * Kevin: Maybe I could have a conversation with you guys outside the meeting. * Ari: I am sincerely sorry to hear that that happened to you, now I better understand why you were defending yourself this way. But, you inject pompusness into otherwise civil discussion. It hurts to read. I would like you to adopt a more proactively kind approach. Sometimes don't press send. * Carlos: Doing stuff here doesn't earn you points. Yeah, I'm here 6 hours, and I come here to hack. If you're here all day every day, there's something wrong. You've heard this at meetings before. * Anonymous: I like all these guys, I thought a lot about this. I've been coming here for 3+ years. What Carlos is saying is true, you shouldn't be here all the time. And you should be kind and encouraging to other people. Thats what Noisebridge's mission is. It doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you do. If you're bringing the space down, and making people not want to come here, that is a problem we need to solve. * Martin: Dan has inhabited the back area, rearranged things, often without making it known to people what is going on. He's been here for a while and been very disruptive. Disagree with Anon about actions speaking louder than words, words have merit. You could be a productive person here but still be an asshole. But then what? * Tony: For two years, I've never slept in the space, while I was houseless. I don't like the judging how much other people use the space. Someone is going to pick up beer cans and wash dishes tonight. I'd like to ask Mik to recant calling me a liar. I appreciate Dan taking responsibility for what he said. * Mik: To clarify, what I said about stuff I'm doing around the space was in direct response to Carlos saying I'm just using the space as an internet cafe. I am collaborating with other people, and did so just today. Working on projects is what NB is about. * Michael: I've been around since 2011 but leave for months at a time. This is NB v3 for me. What Carlos is saying is valid from what I've observed, but it does come off a little heavy, because why shouldn't a component of NB be an internet cafe? Why does it have a hard time being flexible in terms of the needs of people who are contributing to it? Was glad to see the hacker-stackers when I got back. Mik & Dan weren't that disruptive. * Leif: What? Weren't they shouting at eachother? * Michael: Yeah but it was late at night and hardly anyone was here. * Ari: This was disruptive beyond the phsyical space, as it reached the electronic part of Noisebridge. Seeing news of threats of violence is extremely disruptive.
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